[00:00:00]Good morning!

Good morning, Joanna.

Would you like to tell us your name?

Yes. My name is Stefanos Donikian.

And I’m Ιωάννα Παμούκογλου, a researcher for Istorima. We're with Stefanos at Halandri in Athens, and it's the 5th of January, 2024. So, Stef, would you like to tell us a bit about yourself, where were you born, where did you grow up?

Yes. Of course. Another correction -correction, not correction- απλά make it that we are in Polydroso, Maroussi. Because Polydroso, apparently, through some other friends that live here, tell me that there is a big history of culture and a few artists. And I know that a famous Colombian singer and accordion player, Anibal Velasquez, also played in Polydroso. And, yeah, anyway, sorry for the parenthesis.

Important parenthesis!

Important to know, Πολυδροσάρα! So, I was born in Athens actually, February 22nd 1988, where I stayed for about a year until my parents took me back to Ethiopia. So, basically, my parents were born in Ethiopia, their parents were born in Ethiopia, grandparents also born in Ethiopia. And mom, basically, only came here, in Athens, to give birth to me and after a year moved back to Ethiopia where I grew up, went to school -French school I went- and then I left. Anything…

What’s your family’s background culturally? How did they end up in Ethiopia?

Basically, on the Greek side… So, I ‘ve got mom’s side, are part Kefallonian, from Lixouri, and the other part is from near Giannena, which is in Pyrsogianni. And dad’s side is from Rhodes, his Greek side, and from Armenia, his Armenian side. So, I’m three quarters Greek, one quarter Armenian. And, basically, back in the day, in the late 1800s I would say, a lot of Greek and Armenians -and early 1900s- moved to Ethiopia, as they were welcomed from the government and the Emperor let’s say at that time, as Orthodox brothers, to help us out and to… Basically, we were welcome to migrate due to the political problems and financial problems and the crisis that was happening in Greece and Armenia: war, Ottoman Empire, and lots of things like this. So, eventually, these part of the families, from these different parts of Greece and Armenia, ended up by… yeah, they ended up in Ethiopia. Not only Addis Ababa. That's where I grew up, but there were other towns like Harrar, Nazareth, which were also big cities in the past. Now also big, but in a different direction. And they ended up there, they met there.  There was a big Armenian and Greek community -as well as Italian, but we're focusing more on the Greeks and the Armenians- and they were very much, as well, involved probably in the schools. So, the Greek side was more kind of schools and these kind of things, and maybe teaching, and Armenians were more crafts people or art people. So, for example, on grandpa's side, the Greek side, they eventually migrated there and started a business with exporting wheat and flour. That was actually a second business, they started with a glass factory. And on the Armenian side, which we know less of because a lot of the records were lost let’s say and great grandparents and so on. My grandpa was a tailor, my Armenian grandpa was a tailor, and he was the tailor of Emperor Haile Selassie for about 25 years, and as well the tailor of the imperial court of the Emperor, which was fascinating! Unfortunately, I never got to meet this grandpa because he died on 22nd of March 1988, exactly one month after I was born. So, I never got to meet him, he never got to meet me, but it's okay. In spirit!  But I did grow up with my two other grandparents from mom's side, Kefalonian and Lixourian grandpa, which gave me a lot of patriotism about Kefalonia and Lixouri, which has always been in my heart, in my soul, and a place where we've grown up going every summer and I'm very attached to. And the other side from Epirus. I haven't been yet, family went there the last few days, but I had to stay in Athens because I had to push La Saramuya and my picó soundsystem to do some parties here in Athens.

Okay. So, you did have a lot of family members in Ethiopia, was not just like your close family and parents?

Actually, it was mostly… There were many maybe distant cousins, but it was mainly mainly my mom, her sister and her brother. And they have kids and with the cousins we grew up as one family. Dad’s side… My dad has only one sister which didn't have any kids and she moved to Athens, to Europe basically, after university and she stayed in Europe. So yeah, it was just close, small family, but of course we did have some distant cousins, second cousins, third cousins and other Greeks left and right. And another thing actually, I forgot to say is… Talking about all these Armenians and Greeks that were in Ethiopia, a lot also were surrounding the Emperor and the imperial court, so my grandpa, as I said, he was a tailor of the Emperor, but there was many other Armenians that were also part of the… More the arts and…  And the Greeks, many of them were more in the doctor, lawyer and these kind of surrounding of the Emperor. And basically, one of the doctors of the Emperor, actually his physician, was from Lixouri. And the hospital in Lixouri, Kefalonia, if you go there now, there is a plaque, a board that says that it was a donation and it was built by the Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, because the emperor's doctor was from Lixouri, which is an amazing coincidence. So, we have also that history.

So, what did your parents do professionally?

Parents…. Mom raised us, although she had studied economics at ΑΣΟΕ, but traditional house mom -the hardest job in the world!-, raising us in the beautiful way she did, me and my sister. And dad was a businessman, he used to have a travel agency and many small businesses left and right, like with the travel agency also selling… He had αντιπροσωπείες -how do you call that?- of selling cars and things like this. Nothing to do with… no one was anything to do with arts, everybody was more of a businessman let’s say.

Did you… Was music like part of your day-to-day life? Also in the side of Addis Ababa, like did you have a lot of musical stimuli around you, inspiration?

I did, not as much as -let’s say- the other African countries. Ethiopia is more conservative. Yes, very musical country, but very very conservative, let’s say, in the dances of couples, let’s say. I'm comparing this to more West Africa, where there's much more sensuality and the music is very different with the guitars and the electric guitars, and the rumba, and the high life. So, Ethiopia is a totally different country on its own when it comes to music and instruments. It was something that fascinated me, Ethiopian music, more the jazz and Ethio jazz, which is much more subtle and relaxing, let’s say.  And a nice thing about… a nice, little story about this kind of how Ethio jazz came is that… Ethio jazz was born and you had artists like Mulatu Astatke, for example, which is globally known, and they played with xylophones and they had their pianos and synthesizers. But then, with the arrival of 40 Armenian orphans that the Emperor of Ethiopia, Haile Selassie, decided to adopt, basically, they came to play music in Ethiopia and he decided to adopt them and keep them there. They're called the ‘Arba Lijoch’, the 40 kids, and they were the ones that brought the brass instruments, which then became like a fusion, Ethio jazz with the brass instruments of the Armenian orchestra. And then gave birth to kind of like this other branch of the Ethio jazz with brass instruments, which is also beautiful.  So, the music there was different, it wasn't a very danceable kind of music that I grew up listening to. However, we did have some cassettes and CDs that I remember my dad had, and these are I think two songs that really… After many years looking back, is what influenced me in the music I play and listen to now. Apart from, of course, listening to Greek music as well and the hits of that time, I don't know... Anna Vissi and lso older I loved, for example, one of my favorite songs -which I don't remember singing it but my mom remembers that I sang it all the time- is “Fragosyriani”, and every time, she remembers that I would say: “Μία φούντωση μια φλόγα, έχω μέσα στην καρδιά λες και μάγια μού ‘χεις κάνει, Φραγκοσυριανή γλυκιά” Every time! [00:10:00]I don't remember this, but apparently that's the song I sang as a kid. So, going back to this tape, it had two very memorable songs: one of them was the “Lambada” song, Brazilian, which I loved, and it's a very famous song, “Dancando Lambada”. And there was another song in there which was Colombian song called “La Colegiala” from Rodolfo Aicardi. And I loved these songs growing up. Then they kind of disappeared, the CDs disappeared, and I went into another direction of music. Teenage years, rock and let’s say a little bit of that style. But then, a few years later, when I was in London, I met a Venezuelan friend about 7-8 years ago, who kind of brought me back -and some Peruvian friends as well- who kind of brought me back to this Latin, Latin world of music.  And what happened was… Yeah, I remember listening to this “La Colegiala” song at a salsa bar or something in London, and I was like okay, I know the song, I listened to it when I was 5 years old, what is this song? And I kept asking a few Peruvian friends and Chilean friends and they had no idea. And then I see a Colombian guy who's singing the song, so I said, he must know the song. I went up to him, I asked him: “What is this song?”. He said: “This is La Colegiala. Rodolfo Aicardi, Colombian cumbia”. Unbelievable! And then kind of, this came to… this love and this thing woke up in me again of this cumbia and this music, and it really inspired me. And to note that this, “La Colegiala” song, is actually the original is Peruvian, Peruvian chicha. But anyways, it was a cover that a Colombian artist made, and it inspired me very much.

I'm gonna take us back a bit to the school years, ‘cause you mentioned going to a French school. Was this an ethnically diverse environment? Were there students from many different countries or like backgrounds? Cultural backgrounds.

Very, very. So, I was lucky -we were lucky, with my sister- to grow up in Addis because it is the capital of Africa. Embassies from all over the world, first of all, and of all of Africa. And it's also the heart and the headquarters of the African Union, as let’s say Brussels is for the European Union, Addis is for the African Union. So, in school we… It was amazing to grow up basically with a diversity of many people from all backgrounds, from the African Union to the European Union, to embassies, international embassies. And they would go to the American schools, to the German schools and many of them also to the French schools. And the great thing about growing up in the French school specifically, it was that back then -I'm not too sure if today is the case- but back when I grew up, there was… basically it was much cheaper, much much cheaper for Ethiopians to be able to send their kids to the French school, so that they're given an opportunity to learn French.  So, it was very affordable for the less fortunate people to send their kids to a French school and give them this opportunity, which was great. So, in the class, basically growing up from a 3 year old kid to 18 when I finished school, we always had people from all backgrounds, all statuses, all nationalities. And that really really I think obviously marked me as a kid and made me the person I am today, growing up with all these beautiful cultures and fascinating cultures and backgrounds and again, different state, let’s say state, financial states. Because it just didn't matter, and we were all friends and we were all just a group of… it just didn't matter who you were. So that was really beautiful, really. To this day, I'm so grateful for that really.

And was this within the context of the school or would you say that in general, in the Ethiopian society, there is peaceful coexistence between the diverse groups? Or is there competition potentially?

That is a good question. Of course, I mean, Addis… In general Ethiopia is a very unequal country, so of course that is a good question. There… It depends, in a way... I mean, Ethiopia, for example, was never colonized. Italians claim to have occupied Ethiopia. I mean where there was like the Battle of Adwa and the Ethiopians, they beat the Italians that tried to colonize. So being a not a colonized country, they were very proud of that. And obviously, this was an inspiration for many many African countries to eventually lead to decolonization and freedom. So, Ethiopians are very proud people. In terms of competition, I think they… I mean, we never grew up with anything, let’s say, related to, you know, discrimination or anything like that. That could be because as Greek-Armenians, we were a lot more… Let’s say, we were loved and respected a lot because of the religious state of the country. Although it's, let’s say, 50-50 Muslims and Christians. But let’s say that the Greeks and Armenians, we were very well accepted. And of course, also because we spoke the language and we were basically -we are basically- Ethiopian. So, I never felt personally any competition or any discrimination, which was yeah, a good thing. I mean, if you want to add anything. Did I answer the question?

Of course.

Yeah? Okay.

And I was just wondering whether… ‘cause you mentioned before that you were coming quite often to Greece. So, were you maintaining the ties to like both your Greek and your Armenian identity while being in Ethiopia as well?

Very good question as well. Yes, so much more Greek and Ethiopian than Armenian. Yes, Armenian of course, because of my last name. Unfortunately, I don't speak the language, Dad never taught me the language. He speaks it fluently.

Like, you said, your Greek grandpa was there as well, right? 

Yeah.

Did you get… Did you get in… like cultivating, did you get cultivate-

Yeah-

Your Greek side?

Sorry. So, exactly. Sorry. Being there… I mean, yeah. Being there, grew up a lot... Obviously in Ethiopia, with Ethiopian customs and Ethiopian food and Ethiopian coffee and everything like that. But of course, we always spoke Greek in the house, it was something very important, organic. We spoke Greek and always yes, a big love for Greece and Kefalonia from grandpa and Lixouri. So every Christmas… of course, Christmas time and stuff we spent in Ethiopia, and every summer since we were babies, we always came to Athens for a few days and then we went to spend all summer, 3 months summer or more, in Kefalonia, in Lixouri, always. So we were always, yes, very very attached to Greece and very attached to back home. Yeah.

And you said you left Ethiopia when you were 18. How come you decided to leave and why London actually?

Good question. So, you're asking very good questions, Joanna.

Thank you! Your answers inspire it.

Yeah. So, French school... Every person that finished the French school was getting either scholarships or, in general, going to France. That was the core thing. And me and a friend of mine, we decided that we don't want to go study in France, we want to go study in the UK. We just wanted to be in the UK, the universities, we just didn't want to study in the French kind of system. And we basically thought that, you know, the UK is a great option and we were the only two students that decided to go to the UK. And I eventually wanted to… Always drawn to engineering and maths and physics, so I wanted to study engineering, and then I decided to apply and go to a Marine Engineering Naval Architecture course in Newcastle first, and eventually pursue a career probably in… of course in shipping as any Greek, as a proud Greek. Very cliché, not -πώς το λένε;- not unique at all.  And yeah, so I left at 18, got accepted in Newcastle, I went there. I did a Bachelor degree, I did my Master degree in Newcastle, which was a great choice. I learned a lot of things, of course. It was a culture shock, big culture shock between Addis, Newcastle and then Newcastle, London, also a culture shock. Basically, after Newcastle, I finished and I came back to Greece to do my military service. I did 3 months of military service as a Greek from abroad, which was also a great experience meeting some Greeks from places I had no idea that existed. And also meeting Greeks, for example, that had never seen the sea, which for me is like… Of course it's normal, but to me it was unconceivable. But yes, there is people in Greece that have not seen the sea!  And then I went back to do a Master's in London in shipping, trade and finance, which was also something very typical to do in the industry, to get to meet people and get into this industry. I moved to London in 2000, so Newcastle 2006 until 2010, 2010-’11 I was in Greece, Athens, doing my military service, etc. In 2011 I went to London, where I studied for a year and then I worked from 2012 until 2021 with Latsis and doing shipping, operations and chartering, which was great, I was part of the family. It also taught me a lot, and obviously this job is what allowed me to travel, and travel, and travel and end up in Colombia.

[00:20:00]You said you experienced a cultural shock when you first went to the UK. What was it that shocked you precisely?

Yeah, well, culture shock from Addis to Newcastle, it was stepping back. Because I saw things that I didn't see in Ethiopia. I mean, δεν ξέρω πόσο details να μπούμε σε αυτά.

Elaborate if you want!

It was more of a culture shock… So, for Newcastle it was more… Obviously very… architecturally, you know, medieval architecture and Gothic architecture, beautiful Newcastle! But in terms of the people, it seemed like it was another world for me because very wild, very student city, very loud, very… Very wild, I'll say. Love the Geordies, beautiful people, very polite, but they are crazy. And then London, much less polite people than the North, but that was, yeah, more… Moving to the future. So, it was a bit of a weird triangle of culture shock, let’s say. And yeah, London, of course, London is London, capital of the world, fantastic place, very culturally diverse, which was beautiful, which you also saw kind of less in Newcastle. So, I wanted… Maybe moving to London was also somewhere where you could kind of feel like home away from home, more due to the diversity of people and friends and population of London. That was a main reason and that's how I felt in London for many years. So, a lot of respect and admiration for London. And the great thing about London is that we had many, many, many Ethiopian restaurants, so we always kept going to eat every week in Ethiopian restaurants. Every week, because we cannot live without it.

Taste of home.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And going every Christmas -as my parents were still in Ethiopia- so, every Christmas, during the last… basically since 2006 until I left London -let’s say 2021-, so 15 years basically, Christmas and New Year's in Ethiopia and summers in Greece. That was always what we did.

After going to the UK, what did you appreciate the most about Addis Ababa and you know, like how your life was untangling there?

In London?

After going to London, like was there… Because sometimes, like when you leave a place, you get to have this comparative view and you focus on the good things and appreciate some things more that, maybe, they ‘re not as evident while you ‘re there. Was there like something that was… not missing precisely but that you appreciated more when you left?

Yeah, I mean, the simplicity of life in Addis. Definitely. And it was much cheaper than London. That's another big important factor. No but it was… I mean, the weather in Addis and Ethiopia, wonderful. That also could not compare to London. And being back home, always the feeling of when I was in Ethiopia, it was… Although London was like home away from home, it wasn't. When you went for Christmas and New Year's in Ethiopia, that was home. And it was very hard always leaving Ethiopia to go back to London because of family, because of simplicity, because of the weather, because of the friends and the reunion we were having there all the time. It was great times.  It has changed a lot since I left, to kind of -I don’t know- the worst. However, it's developed a lot more and very fast, so it was much more simple and less hectic back in the day. Now, I'll tell you that Addis is probably as buzzing and loud and crazy and wild as London. And busy and traffic and all these things. So right now, in this sense, I wouldn't say it's much more calm and relaxing and easy, because it's changed. But from when I grew up there, it was. Life was very simple and relaxing and you had 2-3 hours away to a lake house we used to go to in Langano, which was just wonderful. And that's a place where also my parents grew up going when they were kids, and their parents grew up going when they were kids. So, it was always a place of reunion of like 3 generations of friends, meeting up in Langano, was always a dream. This was… Lixouri and Langano are my two magical places growing up. And of course, currently -we we will get to that topic- is Barranquilla, is my third home, and now my fourth home is Athens.

Lucky to have a lot of places to call home.

Yes.

In terms of music, did London offer some interesting inspiration?

Yes, absolutely! London offered… As I mentioned earlier, basically one thing was meeting basically at some point a few Mexican, Peruvian, Chilean friends, and Venezuelan -around 2015, this happened, I think around 2015, 2014- which really opened my eyes. And one of these Venezuelan friends basically was an engineer, mechanical engineer that used to live in Germany, grew up in Venezuela, was working in Germany, quit his job to become a guitarist and dedicate his life to music. And that was already inspiring. Of course, I did this about 5 years later, but when I saw this guy who left his engineering career -as me- to turn into music, it was very inspiring. And he was in a cumbia band, his name is Manfred Olbrich. More German, you die, but he's very Venezuelan at the core. Him and another friend, Baldo Verdu, he's from Barlovento in Venezuela, basically seeing these guys performing live and all this, kind of gave me this Latin cumbia love, for this kind of stream of music. As well as a few Peruvians that I met with more of the Peruvian cumbia and chicha, psychedelic music that they have from the 70s, 60s, 70s, 80s, which is beautiful and inspiring.  And we had a favorite nightclub we used to go to, it was called “Passing Clouds” in Dalston, and that place always brought… Had upstairs and downstairs, downstairs there was always kind of a world music live. So, every week would be a band from Senegal, a band from Ghana, a band from Colombia, a band from Peru, a band from even -whatever- Thailand, even… Any kind of place of the world. And then upstairs there were DJ sets, also kind of cool underground music, that at least was underground to me back then. So, that place also really made me enjoy more underground or more ψαγμένη, or more like refined, let’s say, music taste than the mainstream things. And we loved going to “Passing Clouds”, literally we would go Friday, Saturday every week, every weekend, the whole year, for like 3-4 years we did that.  So, learned a lot about music, a lot about the scene, a lot about these cultural places and events in London. And since then, a lot has also changed and increased, as I'm going there also next week to play for the first picó-themed party that's happening in London. So, I'm very proud to be part of a lineup of one amazing girl, Lady Avocado. She's from Barranquilla, she lives in Barcelona. Another guy, Bosingwa, he's from Cartagena, based in Germany, I think Berlin. And myself, Stivako, a Greek-Armenian-Ethiopian that spent a good amount of time in Barranquilla and built a picó, and basically to be part of this lineup in the first picó-themed party of London is a privilege.

It's something!

Yeah.

Okay, so, I think now we can move to the next big and very defining chapter in your life, which was Colombia. When was the first time you visited Colombia?

I visited Colombia in February 2018. How I got there? So, I have an amazing, half Mexican-half Swedish friend, Claudia Christiansen. I'm just mentioning the names in case it's important-

Yeah, yeah of course.

They are important to me, so I will mention them. Her and her boyfriend, Albie, Alberto Treglia, who are actually getting married in Mexico in April and I'm going to DJ at the pre-wedding. Anyways. So, Clau Christiansen studied in Barcelona with a guy from Barranquilla, a crazy guy, Juan Kattan. A nutcase, very cool guy, which I had met around 2014, probably 2015, we also became friends through Clau. Claudia was living in London at that time with her boyfriend Albie, and we're very close friends, which I met again during that time of ‘13, ‘14, ‘15 when I met a bunch of Mexicans, Peruvians, Venezuelans, Colombians. And this friend, Juan Kattan, in 2018 tells us that he's the photographer of one of the carnival parades in Barranquilla called “La Puntica”, which is the more alternative and more free spirited “comparsa” they call it, so, parade group, let’s say. And he said: “I’ve been hired to be…” he’s a photographer. He was hired to be the photographer, basically for this carnival event. And he said: “You guys need to come to Barranquilla this year, that I'm a part of it, and I can get you in”.  At that time, I don't even think I knew there was a carnival in Barranquilla. I just knew that Shakira was from there, and that's all I basically kind of knew. And then I said: “Definitely let's go”. [00:30:00]At the time as well, I had a Peruvian girlfriend before that, I had broken up, we had broken up, she moved back to Peru. I was very sad, I was heartbroken, and this Colombia like... Okay, wow, okay, opportunity to go to Colombia in February, carnival, let's go! Perfect timing. I need something different. And I ended up in Colombia. Flew from London with Albie, so Clau’s boyfriend. We flew to Toronto first, very snowy, absolutely freezing. Stopped there for a few hours, then we flew to Bogota and we had 5 hours in Bogota. So the first thing that happened, we arrived in Bogota at about 01:00 am. Two other friends came to pick us up from the airport with a bottle of Guaro, which is aguardiente, antioqueño, which is a very typical alcohol that they love to drink, the Colombians, during especially carnival time, but in general throughout the year.  And they came to pick us up from the airport with a bottle of Guaro which we started drinking immediately, went to the house of one of the friends to rest for a couple of hours, while drinking Guaro. And 07:00 am, 06:00 am, we had to leave back to the airport basically to go to Barranquilla. So that was a Saturday morning, 06:00 am, sleepless, already drunk, end up flying from Bogota to Barranquilla on the Saturday day of the carnival of Barranquilla. We arrive at 07:00-08:00 am in the morning and there was a lot of buzz happening already at the airport in Barranquilla. Craziness, music, people dressed up at the airport welcoming tourists and people with music and dancing and all this stuff, which was already fascinating. I'm like, this already feels like home. It just gave me a sensation of… this to me is like Ethiopia, like Greece, all in one, it's the Caribbean. Wow! I haven't been to the Caribbean yet ever, so this is like, wow! Welcome to the Caribbean, it was hot, it was sweaty, it was lively, it was loud, it was messy, it was absolutely delicious and fantastic! I just was so happy to arrive.  And we took the taxi, went straight to Juan Kattan's place to get dressed and he had put together some weird costumes. Like, I was wearing a hat with a flamingo on it. It was very very amateur our first year and our first costume, to be fair. Then we got more pros. Put on our tights and -pink tights- hat with a flamingo and we kind of put things together, me and Albi. And, yeah, ended up going straight to the parade and started going to the place where people basically put makeup and all that stuff, which is a house, the “Puntica House”, they call it. And after that, we went straight to the bus that took us to a parade, and we started following the parade and loud music, and picós were also playing left and right, sound systems. Do I explain now what the picós are or not yet?

I'd like to have like a more elaborate image of what the parade looks like. Like could you paint like an image-

Yeah-

Of the street?

Yeah, I'll also send you pictures, but yeah how… okay. So, there was, I remember... First of all, the house, the nice things… The house where we went to get ready was all the people from our parade. So there's many parades. So, La Puntica -like I said- was ours, and there's many many other ones that usually -usually!- are dressed -the other ones- are dressed the same. They have a specific costume, like one of the groups -which I don't remember the name- they wear La Marimonda. La Marimonda is a very famous kind of carnival character, which is like an elephant face with a trunk. But it's got a deeper symbol about this, it's a funny one, we’ll not get into that detail now. So, many parades dressed the same, our parade was more liberal and more kind of very artsy community that wears a bit of everything.  So, arriving in that house and seeing all these beautiful costumes, different all of them and very extravagant with lots of colors, and the theme was like maybe… Every time there was a theme, so this was like kind of like a bird animal Amazonian theme. So everybody was very colorful, very… a lot of feathers were going on, a lot of makeup, a lot of colors. So, the house was… Music was playing, there was a band of basically a Roda de cumbia band that was outside as well, that was… While people, we were putting makeup and getting ready for the whole vibe, they were playing the drums, they were playing cumbia, they were playing… just giving all this carnival energy to the people. Eventually, all these people, when we were ready, got into a bus to be taken to where the parade starts, which I think that time was La Via Cuarenta we went, which is number 40, the road 40, la via Cuarenta. And that's where all the parade in Barranquilla happens, the main parade.  So, we get to the beginning and there was a big truck painted, which I think was maybe -was that the year? I can't specifically remember that year- but maybe it was a big Jaguar that was painted and… which was the car. All this was around the car, that was not really painted. They had built with papier maché like a whole Jaguar around the car, and there was a sound system and a DJ on the car. So, each parade as well has their own music and their own DJ. So we had -that day I remember very well- Uproot Andy, who's an incredible DJ and been going to Barranquilla and playing there for many years -who's also an inspiration to me-, playing the music basically on the van. We were about 100-150 people dressed full of colors. We were the worst dressed of all me, my friend Albie and Juan Kattan, but we managed to make it part of this unbelievable parade.  The streets were full of colors, people… Basically, also pass by… in that street specifically, there’s also people that are there to watch the parade. So, from both sides, left and right, you also have many people that drinking, cheering, dancing to the music and the parades that are passing in front of them. So many people, because it’s the biggest highlight of Barranquilla is the carnival, which is what it's known for, usually it happens in February -sometimes March, but usually it's February dates- and it's always wild. And I think I'm also drawn to it because I'm born in February, 22nd of February, and actually one of the carnivals was on my birthday, 2022. So yeah, it happens in February, so it's basically the highlight of the year. So the whole city for all of the month of February and especially for the days of Carnival, is out in the streets, having fun, partying and giving everything they have to the spirit of Carnival. It's absolutely beautiful, it's delicious. And yeah, I can't… You need to go to see.

I want to now, I'm craving it! How long does the parade and the partying last?

Yeah, so yeah. Usually the carnival starts about Thursday or Friday. The main parade and party is on Saturday, but everyday is a party. Basically, all of February is a party usually. But the main parties are the Friday before Friday Carnival. So yeah, carnival starts on Friday. The Friday before there is a party called La Guacherna, which is the week before Carnival, a big party that happens there, in the whole city. Then the week after, from the Friday until the Tuesday, you have another -so that’s Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday- 5 days of carnival. Starts on Friday and there's parade, main parade on Saturday, there's another parade on Sunday, parties happening all over the city, mainly in the south part of the city. And then the… we also, basically, with the paraded you end up at the end of that parade. Let’s say you start around 10:00 am-11:00 am, you do all the via Cuarenta by foot, going slowly and dancing and basically the people are also on this road waiting for the parade to pass.  So, probably ends around 18:00 pm so it's about a 6-7 hours of walking and dancing, you're just fueled on adrenaline, literally! And then you end up where our parade is having their party. So, every parade ends up somewhere where they're having their own parties and they can end up in a street, in a steet corner, they can end up in a venue, they can end up in a car park, they can end up in places like that. And then it ends on a Tuesday with the day of Joselito. Joselito was a character from the carnival and basically people mourn him. The way Carnival ends is that everybody dresses in black like a widow, men and women, and they cry. They cry for Joselito, who died from too much partying and drinking. So, all the widows are basically all the women that Joselito had, and they are the ones crying his death because he died from too much partying and too much drinking, and… which is very funny. And they also cry for the end of carnival. So it's both stories.

So, a bit ritualistic.

Yeah. It's very ritualistic. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And was this the first time you ever saw a picó?

Yeah. So, picós are the traditional sound systems of the Colombian Caribbean coast. They are absolutely beautiful, they're painted in colors, they're phosphorescent, they have a name, they have an identity and they're an integral part of the Colombian Caribbean and of course, of carnival season mainly, because that's when let’s say all of them come out. So, these sound systems have been around from about the 1950s, where usually collectors would be the ones that would build them. [00:40:00]And these collectors would build them and make their own parties in their neighborhood or in the streets that they live in or nearby, and play music for the lower class people who didn't have enough money let’s say to go to the orchestras or to go to nightclubs or anything like that. So, these street parties would be free parties, but basically they would also bring the people who sell drinks and alcohol, they would bring the people who sell street food. So there was a community of people, a community of business that was built from these street parties.  And basically, yes. I saw the picós for the first time… And -sorry- these collectors also, they started exchanging a lot of their local records or also buying from the sailors that would come to Africa -from Africa- and the Caribbean and Brazil. These people would come to the port of Barranquilla, because Barranquilla is also called La Puerta de Oro, which means the Golden door, as one of the main and most important ports of South America. And these people would either travel or have friends that were in the boats or sailors, or just do business with these sailors. And would get a hold of many Caribbean, African and South American and also US salsa and Cuban records, which they would play and would love to be the first ones to play.  Eventually, during the 70s, there was a big wave of African music that ended up coming to Barranquilla and this African music became integral part of Barranquilla, of Cartagena, of Santa Marta -the other port cities around the area- and the picó culture. And there were many records that were also… each person who had these records, many of them were very unique and many of these people who had the picós and the records were the only ones who had these records. So, they would not want the other picós to have the other records, so they would paint on top of their records, so that no one else knows what this record is but they would exclusively be the ones that play this song. So, people would know that: “Oh, this is the song I love, so we need to go see X picó to go listen to this song”. So, you had…   And yeah, so you knew which picó was playing the songs you like and also they -on top of that- they would also give them the tracks, the African tracks, their own names because the real names were kind of covered. So, they would give them a picónema, which is kind of like a nickname of the song that was the one that traditionally, the specific picó would play. So going back to… Yeah, that first day of Carnival that I arrived, I saw a few. Basically, at the parade itself there weren't any picós where we were in the day, at the parade itself. But going from the airport to Barranquilla city, the airport is in a town called Soledad, which is also a very historical city near Barranquilla. It's another city, a very picó-orientated city with a lot of history of picós.  So, basically, on the way, and passing by the neighborhoods, I saw these beautiful boxes with colors that were blasting music basically in… or the streets or from the yards of each person's house. Like 3-4 blocks, and you had like a picó and people were sitting in their kind of patio outside, they had the picó blasting music, and you could have 2, 3, 4 in a row. You could have just one for the whole street. There were just everywhere. And I was like, what are these? These are fantastic and I'm so glad I've seen this thing! And I wanted to have one from the first time I saw one. I wanted to have one. Even as a little one as a toy, because they make them in all sizes, but I wanted one. And a few years later, I did get one.

Did you… Because you said to you that it was combining with like different diverse cultural identities.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Actually, yeah, that was something I forgot to mention. What fascinated me the most was one, aesthetically, what they looked like, because they look beautiful and they're very imposing and they're very majestic and they're colorful and they play loud and they have an identity, like I said, each of them. But the amazing thing, what fascinated me the most, was listening -and on the radio and on the picós that was passing by- a lot of African music, West African music that I… Obviously, I didn't know all the songs, I knew maybe 1 or 2 that I had heard a few, maybe more than maybe 3, 4 or 5 songs that I had heard in Ethiopia through some West African friends that were in my school. So I kind of knew that, oh, this was maybe Congolese song, this was maybe something from Ivory Coast.  But listening to actual… not African influenced music, which of course it is very powerful also in Colombia, from the cumbias to the salsa and all this is also obviously African influenced. But to actually listen to African music from the 60s, 70s, 80s, playing on the picós and these have become traditional music. I couldn't believe it! I was like, how am I in the Caribbean and I'm listening to actual African music? Not African-influenced music only, but actually African music. How did this get there? Why are they playing this music? Why are they fascinated about this music? And eventually, I found out that a bit of this history, and how they got there and how this became part of it. And then eventually, they've created a genre in Colombia, in Cartagena and Barranquilla, which is the Champeta, which is very influenced from this Congolese rumba let’s say and soukous music with the guitar and the beat. And they've created a genre on their own, which is 100% influenced from this specific genre of music.

So, like a cultural merge, or…

Yeah, yeah, also yeah. And also another powerful city that's got picós and a big African community and influence is Palenque, which I've been, it's a very beautiful city, very historical city, very powerful city. And it was the first independent African city in all of South America, the first one that took its independence from… Basically, started with one slave that ran away from Cartagena, ended up in Palenque. He founded Palenque and he… eventually that became a city, and it was the first independent African city of Colombia and South America.   So, as I mentioned earlier, basically the name of the African slave which became an African leader is Benkos Biohó and this was around 1600s. Him and another 10 slaves escaped Cartagena and founded San Basilio de Palenque, which became the first African city of South America. And also, they speak their own language, which is incredible that Palenquero is still spoken to this day. And I have some friends there, a very nice band, Kombilesa Mi who sing in Palenquero -that's the language they speak there- and they do rap, basically folk rap of Palenque. I will make you listen, very nice, and I would love to bring them to Greece very soon. They are incredible. They're incredible! So, yeah, I think that was it, just to mention.

You mentioned before that initially it was collectors, primarily, who had the picós. Nowadays, who is it that owns the picós or creates the picós?

Yeah. So, I mean yeah, I would… not I would assume. It was mainly collectors because, you know, they were the ones that had the music and the records and they would, of course, want to start like a kind of business to obviously do the picós. Today it’s… Usually today there's two groups of people, there's the people from the first picós, that has gone down from generation to generation, El Coreano, etc., and I will name some more of the picós. So, it's from generation to generation, basically the grandpa had a picó, then the son, then the grandkid and so on. It gets passed on from generation to generation and it's something that has kept basically this tradition, because all of these people grew up with the picó. If they grow up with a picó family, it's such an honor to take over the picó of the father and etc., so you see this very often.  Of course, you might have some that eventually maybe have no interest, but from what I know, these have kept been going from generation to generation. The second thing is that, from what I know, there's also a few picós that, for example, were let’s say sold like a franchise. So, maybe you have someone that has a famous picó or any picó and he just doesn't have any kids or nobody's interested, so this guy will sell the picó and the name of the picó to someone that wants to get involved. So, he takes over that legacy of the picó and probably the record collection of this person as well, and so on. And then you have people like me, the newer generation, that are fascinated by the culture and have gathered a little bit of money and saved some money to be able to build their own picó and start be the first of their generation or of their family let’s say, to to start having a picó and doing what picós do best is verbenas, parties. Parties.

And is it, to this day, a handcrafted creation or is there a mass production of picós?

[00:50:00]No. Mass production no. So, the nice thing is… I mean it’s all… everybody has kind of.. I guess there… Well, you have a lot of carpenters that are the people that make the boxes for the picós because they're built of wood. So, each person has their preferred carpenter, but these carpenters are literally picó builders, so all they do is build speakers and picós. So, there's many of them in each of these cities and each one of them has their preferred person that builds them their picó to the specification that you want, and the design and so on. Then you have someone that creates the DJ booths, for example. I mean, it's also carpenters that can make a picó. But then, for example, in my case, it was kind of… I went to… Because when I arrived there, basically I met... Να πω τώρα πώς… how we ended up building La Saramuya or this is going to follow up later?

Sure, you can! 

Ναι. 

Just, after you left the carnival, you went back to London first, right?

Yes. Yeah.

But you already had in mind that you wanted to build your own picó?

I had in mind that I wanted one. Now, it was maybe something for my house, a little one that I want or to make little parties in my house or… Yeah, but it was not… it was like, okay, I'll do it at some point, like I'll make one. And I mean, back then as well I didn't realize, well to what extent they can be huge of course, but I didn't realize to what extent it's going to be difficult as well. You know, I thought like, whatever, I'll make one one day, you know? A year, 2, 3, whatever, I'll make one.

And you want to make it there, in Barranquilla?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always did.

So, after you left for the first time, you knew you were coming back?

I knew I was coming back. I knew I would not miss any other carnival in Barranquilla. So, I was there in 2018, holidays of course, because I was working. So, I spent that first carnival, I came back in 2019 for the carnival, I went back in 2020 for the Carnival. 2021 covid hit and there was unfortunately no carnival, so I didn't go. But then, that was exactly the moment which was covid and so on, so I quit my job in the summer of 2021. And yes, from kind of that point onwards, I was thinking: “All right, I'm going back whenever I can when covid ends and I will… I would love to”. Basically I left my job, I had a good record collection, and I said: “The first thing I'm going to do is go to Colombia in 2022 Carnival to play music as a DJ, because I already knew some people and that I could definitely play at some parties, and during that trip I'll stay a little bit longer to start maybe building the picó”.

Had you DJayed before that?

Very little. I did a gig. I knew I had a good collection and I had… Well, from what I think, good taste in music, to my standards. So, I knew that, you know, I had a good collection, record collection. I knew a little bit of course what I liked and what I wanted to express with my music and the music I played. But I did… No, I had done maybe one vinyl gig in London at a place called the “Post Bar” in Tottenham, which was an open decks night organized by another DJ Polyrithmo, she's a very good selector of Brazilian music and she was organizing that one. So, it was great to go and meet her and great to play there for an hour, an hour and a half. It was fun, it was a Sunday evening, very relaxing, first gig went well. And from then on, I think I maybe played once or 2-3 times left and right until February. February I just had to be ready.

So, February you played at Barranquilla?

Yeah, at Barranquilla Carnival party.

With a picó?

No, I didn't have my picó then. We used a picó of some friends, which I love. It's called the Lavoe which is named after Héctor Lavoe, which is a master of salsa music from Fania All-Stars and he's a huge personality of salsa. And this picó is medium sized, let’s say. Lavoe, it was one of the first ones, actually, that I actually listened to at a party. And they're very good friends, the guys, they've done a great job, so the picó we played on the… that was actually on the 22nd of February 2022. So, I actually played on the day of my birthday and it was amazing because I had also some pretty famous artists during my set. I had Liliana from Bomba Estéreo, I had Busy Twist, which I'm a big fan of, he's also a good DJ. I had Ghetto Kumbé which are also another band from Colombia. And it was overwhelming to have these people at my set, first row, right in front of me, on my actually first official DJ set at a party. And it was the party of Barranquilla 2022.

How were you feeling before this set?

I was very excited, very nervous. I drank some Guaro, which I told you was necessary, and a bit of Chirinchi as well, which is very nice -I have some Chirinchi here-, to get a bit warmed up. It was a fantastic experience! And basically, also playing for the first time on a picó, on the Lavoe. So, it was all was a first time DJaying, first time big party, first time on a picó, Lavoe, and first time playing having this crowd in front of me. It was about 150 people. It was really really fun. It was spectacular! And this was a party organized mainly by a good friend of mine, Juanjo, who's also a DJ who goes by the name of Hoyonegro. And he was basically one of the first people I met in 2018 and this party was organized by him, and he's the one that gave me the opportunity to play as a DJ at their party, or our party, in 2022. And eventually, with Juanjo as well, we did the party of 2023 Carnival, which I went to also as a DJ, and with my picó. And this time we had La Saramya, my picó, at the 2023 Carnival party, on the Saturday, which was also great and we had a few really good DJs and one that is more, let’s say, known would be Sammy from Analog Africa, which is a great record label with really good compilations. And I also learned a lot of music through these compilations. So, it was an honor to have him play on the picó on Carnival of Barranquilla, basically on my picó. It was great.

On your first set, did it feel different playing actually on a picó, as opposed to just like a DJ deck?

Yes, it felt different because one, you have this beautiful, colorful thing, that's more of a highlight than the DJ booth. It's more the picó. And what was great is that usually people will gather in front around the picó. So, that was different, is that you had these people that were dancing in front of this Lavoe Turbo, that they called the picó, and that was… The difference was there, in terms of…

The energy.

In terms of the energy. So, that was very different. It was more the energy and aesthetically this beautiful, colorful thing where people are around it and they are dancing around it, in front of it and venerating it, basically.

More of a collective thing.

Yeah, yeah, that was nice.

So, you mentioned before that you also quit your job. Did this have to do with your aspirations related to the picó as well?

Yes. Basically, what happened is that I did realize at some point -also before covid and then more during covid- that I did not want to be in an office and this was just… I was not meant to be here. I felt that it’s just… you know, many people…  I mean, I'm of course, it's a great industry and I'm always fascinated with the sea and with ships and with boats. But that was not enough to keep me to work there. And I thought, you know, it's a great job but I’m not that happy myself, because it's not what I really want to do, so, I'm better off leaving and the company is better off getting somebody who is more willing to give everything and wants this more than me, because that's not fair to me, to the company and to someone else that… who deserves this opportunity.  So, at that point yeah, I decided when I leave, I'll start DJaying a bit and I'll build a picó, basically bigger than what I thought. Because I wanted to turn it into make a living from it. Basically, I wanted it to be my life the same way... Yeah, I just wanted to build it and I said, I'll think about what I'll do later. So, let me build it, let me do some parties in Colombia, in Barranquilla, and then I'll bring it. Initially, I had the idea of making two of them. I wanted to build two, one of them to stay in Barranquilla and the other one to bring to Greece. Obviously, it did cost me a lot more than I thought, number one and number two, it was financially challenging to build two, so I just stuck to one. And eventually in the future, I would love to have one in Barranquilla, have another one in London, have another one in Brazil and so on.

So, you did go back to Barranquilla and you did make your own picó. Would you like to describe the step-by-step process? Like, once you knew that you want to do it, how… what was the first thing you did? Who was the first person you reached out to?

Great. Good that we got here. That’s true. [01:00:00]So, the first thing was: eventually, I was also a big fan of -now- a very good DJ, picótero. Picótero are usually the DJs that grew up with the picó culture and play on picós. As I mentioned also to you earlier, that a picótero is not necessarily a person who owns a picó. Picótero is the DJs that play on picós, because you have also other people, even from the ones that I told you that go on from generation to generation, maybe these people generationally own the picó, but it doesn't mean they're picóteros and it doesn't mean that they're the ones playing the music. Collection could be theirs -half theirs or half not- but they usually will have one, two, three DJs, picóteros, that will be the ones that play on their picós and play from the core collection of the picó, but also their own collection.  So myself, I cannot be considered as a picótero. I would love to maybe one day, but at this point in time I own a picó, I want to spread the picó culture, the cultura picótera and the Afro Latin, Afro-Colombian culture. And I am a picó owner that will do parties and bring picóteros to play on my picó, but I am not a picótero yet. So, there was a picótero, a famous picótero called Don Alirio, who I was already a fan of from a few years back because he plays only vinyl and he plays incredible collection and connoisseur of picó music. So, from the West African to the salsas to anything ranging in this… To the cumbias. And he played at one of the parties -I think I saw him for the first time in 2022- and I was a big fan of Don Alirio. He's born and raised in Barranquilla, South Barranquilla, near “La Estacion”, which is a famous bar that used to put picós. And he grew up with the community, plays for many many years. And I saw him play and I was fascinated by the music he played and everything he did.  Eventually I approached him and got to know him and say hi, and I told him where I'm from, that I'm a fan and that I want to build a picó. And after his DJ set, he… we had a chat and he was really happy to meet me and to talk with me and eventually he told me: “Okay, if you want to do this right, I will put you in touch with who you're going to contact to make your picó”. And Don Alirio gave me the name of a sound engineer, which is a friend of his which he grew up with, his name is Jair Arango, who is a dear friend as well now. And he's my sound engineer who helped me basically do everything. So I met Jair a few days later and I contacted Jair, I met Jair, I went to his home/workshop where he has a few picós laying around, his own and a few other ones that he was arming, we say it. Arming means once the box, the boxes are ready from the carpenters, he arms them, because he's the sound engineer, he's the one that will put the speakers in and eventually turn everything into to life.  So, Jair… Went to his house, we had a beautiful meeting, incredible person. All these people obviously treated me honestly like family. So grateful for every single one of them! And Jair told me that, okay, he knows the person, the carpenter where we're going to go to build the box. So, I had to come up with an idea on what I wanted in the picó in terms of how many speakers, how powerful, how big, to get an approximate, you know, dimension and size of what I wanted. So, we found who he wanted us to build… Jair found, told me we would go to Leo, Leo is the person, the carpenter who built my picó. So, after that day, we went to... I left, that was just after carnival, so I went for a few days in the Caribbean to relax after carnival.  During this time, I was trying to design my picó and I had pen and paper and just designing how big, how many speakers, just to get an idea. I went back to Barranquilla a week later and we straight went to… I went to Jair with the designs, and then he told me: “All right, let's go meet Leo” Leo is the carpenter. We went to meet Leo, had a chat with Leo, told him approximately what we wanted to do. All right, perfect, he told me: “Come back in one month. It's going to be ready”. Alright, fantastic. During this time, basically, I was going a few times a week to check the progress. At the same time we were rushing a little bit to make her because I wanted to do a party before having to go back to Europe. And during this time, I had arranged a trip as well to Brazil.  So, I left for Brazil to -basically, it was music related- to look for some records and some music. During this time they were building my picó, so I didn't stay as much as I would have liked to in the carpenter shop. I don’t know how important this is, but... So, eventually, a month later, the box was ready. Also, when I got back from Brazil, I went to meet… I told Don Alirio I want Maestro William to paint my picó. So, Maestro William is the most famous picó painter out there. There's many excellent picó artists, excellent ones, but specifically Maestro William was the one that I preferred the style and I just wanted him to paint my picó. So, of course, Don Alirio knew Maestro William, who is the Leonardo da Vinci of picó painting and his normal day job is a teacher of art in a public school in the south of Barranquilla, where he teaches kids from about 12 to 16 years old art, artes plasticas, like he calls it.  So, I went to meet him in the school. I went to meet him in the school one day and I told him my story and I told him what I wanted to do, and he was very happy to be the one painting a picó that’s going to go to Greece. A lovely man, beautiful human being, very creative, very talented. And we got kind of the design that I wanted, and he also told me: “Okay, you know, give me a few weeks and we'll get the painting ready”. So yeah, after that, a few days later, I went to the house of Maestro William, which is also his workshop. Beautiful little cozy house, also in south of Barranquilla -all this is happening in the south of Barranquilla- to see the progress. He had started a little bit… a few lines on the painting and I met his lovely wife Daisy and his daughter Genesis, which are all super lovely, and they were at the house and they welcomed me with a coffee and a chat. And I saw the studio and all the other artwork that Maestro Willian had done, including his own picó. He also owns a picó and he is a picótero actually, and has been painting picós for probably the last 30 years, at least 30-40 years. And I saw the progress, we had a chat and then okay, we said: “Okay, painting needs a few more days. The picó box is ready”, so with Jair we said: “What do we do? Okay, we need to find speakers, cables. Let's go to the center. Alright, let's go to the center”. My driver and picótero, Reinaldo, you saw the name on the…

Everyone is a picótero in this town!

Yes, yes. Reinaldo Alvarez, picotero of El Jordi, a famous picó from a few years back. Now, this picó doesn't exist anymore and I own the music box of this picó, because this person sold the music boxes and the DJ booths and so on. So, he said: “Let's go to the center”. So, we went with Reinaldo Alvarez, who's a picótero/taxi driver/tour guide, and more than that, a friend of mine. With Jair and Reinaldo we go to the center. Centro Barranquilla -centro historico, as they call it- is where, basically, most of the record stores are, which is where I did a lot of digging as well in the past, I had already been there. And it's where all the electronic stores are. So, it's absolutely buzzing with people who sell fruits and vegetables all over the streets, shops that are like blasting music because they're selling speakers, amplifiers, they sell ready-made picós with ready-made paintings or with no paintings that you can take and paint them, small, medium, not huge ones, they don't sell the huge ones. But all this is happening in the center.  The person who sells cables and lights, that person who sells amplifiers, the person who sells plugs, the person who sells… who is the best in like whatever, ventilation system. Everybody is 3-4 blocks away and we just went there, parked the car and spent 2-3 hours shopping. It was beautiful. I can share some photos of that. I have so many of the center, which is one of my favorite places to spend time. You can spend hours there looking for electronic stuff and records. One of the famous record stores there is called “Discolandia”, which was owned by… Let me remember his name, περίμενε. Which was owned by Don Victor Butron, who also owned a record label called “Felito” -may he rest in peace-,[01:10:00] I met him a few years ago when I went there for the first time to buy records but unfortunately he died during Covid. A great man. And now his son or nephew is also running the record store, which is beautiful, great collection, incredible archive. You can find absolutely everything there.  And it's also in front of a building where another famous Barranquillero artist used to live or lives, his name is Abelardo Carbono and he plays Barranquilla-style Champeta, which I mentioned earlier, which is more like a psychedelic champeta from Barranquilla, which is different than the one from Cartagena which is a bit more hip-hoppy, let’s say. So it's his style. So, we went to the center, we got all the stuff we needed, we went back to Jair’s workshop and we started fitting the speakers, started fitting the cables and, you know, watching, learning from these guys. I also had… I have an electrician called Felipe Mariaga -great guy as well, also a friend of mine-, so he was dealing more with the electrical. Reinaldo was a picótero and a taxi driver who took us everywhere, and Jair Arango is the sound engineer and the brains behind everything, the project.  Went back to his house, started fitting all the speakers. We still didn't have a painting because that was still getting ready. And actually, eventually -this was around May 2022-, the painting was ready in November 2022, so I'll get back to that. So, we had no painting but we still fitted everything, and then we started doing sound tests. So, first time we just turned her on, turned La Saramuya on, it was just a magical moment, I couldn't believe it. I had the same feeling when I turned her on in my garage, and every time I turn her on. It was beautiful, it was in the streets of... I think Santo Domingo it's called where we… not I think, I need to know and I will tell you and we will add this part, like exactly of the name of the street where we put her to play. During the day, we turned her on, started playing salsa. I remember very well. And there was a few people that were there, in the street and they just came by and started dancing in front of the picó. The only thing we had was just “La Saramuya” written in very different letters, no painting in the main box. She was in the streets, with painted red on the inside, the wood, and her big woofers showing, her big woofers showing there and giving an absolute beautiful bassy sound. And it was just magical, really. It was beautiful, it was beautiful.

How did you come up with her name? La Saramuya.

Good. So, the name La Saramuya came to me... Eventually, many of the picós that I knew, most of them had masculine names in the sense that they were called El Faraon, El Conde, El gran mono, El Cooreano. All of these had these names, and I just wanted to give her, give my picó a female name. Just because. Eventually, I found out that there's not many, or if just a handful of picós that have a female name, but I didn't know that at first, I just wanted to give one. And I'm very indecisive in many things, so I knew that it's probably going to take me -my God, I was thinking- it's going to take me a year to find the name for my picó. I just need to make a decision fast. And then, at some point, I listened to this beautiful cumbia song from one of the Colombian maestros of cumbia and accordeon, Andres Landero. And he has a song called “Bailando cumbia”. And this song -including many other songs, I'll get to that- basically says: “Me parece, que te vi bailando un día Me parece, que te vi muy saramuya” So, from the moment I actually heard that song in these letters… Because I was actually also learning spanish during these times, I was using music to learn spanish. So, I was learning songs that I liked by heart and then singing them, and then kind of translating and understanding what they meant. So, I was really just trying to find out what does Saramuya mean? What does that mean in the song? What does it mean? I asked a few people, they had no idea. Then, I asked older people -like new generation people had no idea what it meant-, so, I of asked older people in their maybe 60s-70s: “What does saramuya hat mean?”. And they said: “From what I know, the context, it's actually the name of a fruit, but here we use it as “κοκέτα” or “a seductive one”, or “κοκέτα”. And I said okay, wow, I like that, okay, that sounds very nice. And then I'm like, okay, you know what? I think kind of that moment, it hit me, I'm like: “I'll call my picó ‘La Saramuya’, I'm not changing my mind, I'm not going to like think of it too much and start like giving other options”. I'm like, La Saramuya, that's the one, done.  And since then, I've heard the word Saramuya in many other songs of Colombia, especially costeño songs, from the coast -cumbias mainly- that use the word saramuya. Which is funny because also many people, Colombians and Barranquilleros, did not know what that meant, and they didn't even realize that this word was in these songs or in songs, and it's funny how, now, La Saramuya represents the picó, my picó. And she also, brought back this kind of word that disappeared in the dialect of the costeños, and it kind of brought it to life. And I have many collectors now of music that will send me -from Colombia, Barranquilla- they’ll send me a photo of a record that has a song called “Cumbia Saramuya”, which means, like a sexy or seductive cumbia, for example. Or songs that have saramuya in it. So, they are now aware of the existence of this word. So, it's very nice to bring it back to life. That was not my intention at all, it was just something that I decided.

Throughout our conversations, I understood that it was really important for you to respect the tradition of the picó and, sort of, like engage the locals and the traditional artisans in the process. And I also wanted to ask how did they receive this idea, of you taking this picó and bringing it to Europe? Because -I think you mentioned- it's the only one that was actually made there, right?

Yeah. Very good question, Joanna. I'm glad you you went there because I want to touch that subject. Everything I try to do with total respect to the community, to the picótero culture, cultura picótera, to the people, to the locals, to everything, even from the name. Even the name -from the beginning, actually, when I did decide that this would be the name- I asked as well people from the community, also women from the community, if it would be offensive in any way, because it means maybe, you know “seductive” and “κοκέτα”. So, okay, there's that attraction or sexual connotation of what La Sarsamuya means, but it's I think it's more than that, definitely. But I wanted to, of course, check also with let’s say the female community is it okay to name the picó this way? So that was very important for me. And everybody told me it was totally fine and very beautiful name, very powerful, feminine and very acceptable. So I was glad. They were very happy.  I mean… Again, everything I was doing with total respect. So, I was always asking questions on the name, on if it would be okay to take her to Europe eventually. And everybody was very positive and everybody was very loving and supporting and so proud that I, a foreigner, is in love with this culture and is willing to promote this culture. And it was something, at least from the people that I noticed... I mean, it's been something that's growing in general, but they were grateful and honored that we let’s say, the non-Colombians, are fascinated by this culture and want to spread it and want to show it around. And they couldn't believe it that this is where it would reach. Now it's reached a very high point and it keeps growing.  So, I remember -just to go back on something that we talked about before, but I will continue this question- is that -and this I remember very well- first we put her to play -La Saramuya- to play in the streets, when we're doing the sound tests. And then, the first first day party we organized was a few days later in Puerto Colombia, which is about half an hour outside Barranquilla, and it was a kind of like a beach bar, traditional beach bar where they bring picós from time to time. I think yeah, “Mar del Sol” it was called. And we still didn't have a painting -like I said, at that time- but we brought her there, I think it was a Sunday morning, we set her up and we played records all day. Myself, Reinaldo, Jair played and another very good picótero as well, and very good friend of mine, amazing, Héctor Obando, incredible person. He's actually from Cali, from Buenaventura, but grew up in Cali and was also raised in Barranquilla and became a picótero. And it's rare not to have... usually picóteros are let’s say from the coast and Héctor Obando is an incredible picótero who is from the Pacific. Totally different culture and energy and music on that side. That's something to talk about some other time.  [01:20:00]And when we played there, at “Mar del Sol”, everybody was fascinated with La Saramuya and how she sounded. Everybody was really enjoying also the music that I was playing. And you had a lot of old traditional picó people that were listening to the records that I was playing, I was playing a few Cabo Verde music, a few African music that they might have not heard, a few Brazilian songs that they didn't know, but it was all… it was all kind of engraved and it did match the picótero culture, in what I was playing playing. And they really appreciated it, they admired it. They already gave La Saramuya a specific song. Each picó usually has a song that is related to them. La Saramuya was related and these guys called her La Saramuya and me, they called me Stivako, el Stivakinho el Rey de Pedrinho. Pedrinho is a Cabo Verde artist that played… A song I played from him was called “Ei Se Vous Dancé”, an amazing Cabo Verde song, which they all got blown away and these are people that have been in the picó communities for the last 30-40 years.  So, they loved the picó, they loved the reception, they loved the music I played, they loved the song that they never heard ever, and it became the trademark song of La Saramuya, for us and this community. And I won't forget that when we finished that night -sorry- the owner of “Mar de Sol”, of the bar, he came to me and he hugged me and he kissed me and he said that: “Thank you so much for doing this, I'm so grateful that you like our culture and you want to show our culture. And this is just so fascinating. Thank you”, and I told him: “I really appreciate you saying this, and thank you for allowing me and letting me promote your culture”, and he said: “Absolutely, like I couldn't be any more proud and happier. And this is on behalf of all of us here”. So that, of course, was very nice to hear and very nice to be on the same page as, you know, these people without disrespecting the culture and the community in any way. In any way.

Were there any challenges or risks during this process of creating the Baranquilla and you moving it out of… of creating the picó and moving it out of Baranquilla?

Yeah. It was all great and fun times obviously, but it obviously also had the darker and more difficult times. The good thing is I was of course surrounded by people that knew the industry, knew the culture, and knew -the team, I mean the team that we built La Saramuya- they knew the culture, they knew the people, they knew the areas and where to go, where to buy everything. So, it was amazing venturing around all these neighborhoods from the center and south Barranquilla, where is more the picó culute of Barranquilla was born. However, these… Challenges, in terms of finding everything we needed, not at all. Because everything, everything is available if you want to build a picó, really. You just obviously have to look, but everything is available from the center to this, to that, you know, you find everything.  The other challenge, basically, was more in terms of safety. I never ever felt threatened or unsafe. I was always surrounded by, you know, great people and welcoming people from North Barranquilla and even in the south of Barranquilla, very loving and peaceful and, you know, kind. But, the reality is that the southern part of Barranquilla can be dangerous in many ways. So, it was something that especially like my guys and my team, whenever I was in the south of Barranquilla, they always were a lot more cautious with me, being like… as in they always kept an eye on me not to venture too far. Although, like I said, I never felt any danger, but they know how dangerous it can be. So I know, every time, whether I was going out for a cigarette or I was just venturing, it was like: -you know, even during the day, especially at night- “You do not go more than 20m from us”.  So, this was, kind of, of course, something to be “pendiente”, like they say always. “Ojo, ojo”, he would tell me, “Ojo”, “Keep an eye”. So, it was like, I never felt threatened, but that was kind of something that I had to be aware of. And of course, there was maybe some times areas we couldn't really go to because of more dangerous situations. And you would hear of course -not of course- you would hear of people being shot and being killed around a few blocks away because of, you know, whatever gangs, because of personal things, because of… It can be anything. It's a bit of a sensitive topic and it hurts me to say, because the worst thing about this eventually is that it's hurting the picó community in general because there's a lot of extorting happening currently. In the last two years and currently. Specifically, in my case, the last few months of being there before taking the picó, it was a little bit scary and the parties that we did were a little bit scary. Nothing happened, but there was the risk of potentially these people and groups extorting you.  For example, if I want to take the picó to play somewhere or if I want to take the picó to Greece. So, if they were aware or knew that this picó was going to Greece, they would probably be consequences and probably, you know, stopped me to, basically, hold a ransom the picó for me to take her out. And this is hurting the picó community because many picó owners and picóteros are not taking their picós out in the streets to play much, because they're being extortion by people and saying: “You know what? If you want to take your picó out you need to pay me this money. If not I take your picó, or a lot worse”. So it's hurting the community because these people now don’t take their picós out because they're afraid to take their picós out. And this is happening more and more. So, this is the sad part and the very hurtful part of the reality of what is happening, also. It’s all carnival and fun and colors and beautiful energy, but there is a dark side on the other hand, which is hurting the picó community and the community in general, with this violence, which I didn't experience first-hand -thank God- but I know people who have experienced it first-hand. And it's sad.

And the threat was there.

Yeah, the threat could have been there, yeah.

So, from what I understand, it’s that the gangs have influence over the streets, and the picó is a street project, a street party, so, by extension, it's affected.

Yeah. It's affected. And eventually, yeah, so they'll tell you: “You're going to make money from this because one, you're going to get rented, two, a bunch of things will happen on that street. So, it's like, I own, I control the street. So if you want to put her here, this is my…”. And it could be also not the street, specifically, it can be marking a specific picó. So, whether he plays in another street or in another area, either it's going to be that same group that threatened him in the first place, or it might be another group that is in that street. So it's becoming a little bit… It's very complex. And, you know, it's not… it’s a sensitive topic that is better to leave…

It’s valuable that you're giving this insight. It doesn't mean that you create like a negative image of course, but it's the truth.

Yeah, it is the truth. But, like I said always, never felt threatened, Barranquilla in general is safe, carnival time is safe, it's a huge event, it's a huge party, I highly recommend everybody to experience the Carnival of Barranquilla. And it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and it's something that yeah, I wouldn't miss. I wouldn’t miss.

And the very positive news is that you did manage to bring your Saramuya here and now it's the first picó ever in Athens! And you actually had your first… your launch, let’s say, recently, your first set with La Saramuya. How did that feel like? Seeing her actually here after so long and you playing for the people of Athens, like being introduced to this.

Yes. Beautiful, okay, that felt great. So, basically what happened is after we did that party at “Mar de Sol”, that I said, then -without a painting-, then we threw another party in one of my favorite spots, where actually I played for the carnival party in 2022, which is called Casa Maria, beautiful place, great little culture center. Then I left and I came to Greece, and I went back in November to get the painting. Saramuya stayed there for 6 months and she was playing at the bar of my friend Jair, who also owned a bar in Estadero also, which is, you know, a snooker place or drinking place.  So, in November I went back to get the painting and throw another couple of parties, which we did. And finally, we kind of launched her there with the painting in November, stayed about a month or so, then I came back to Greece and in 2023 January I left again to Colombia, which was carnival time, and that's the time I had to prepare her for the carnival parties. We did 4 straight days of carnival parties, which was amazing, in the calle… [01:30:00]La treinta, I think it is? I'll have to reconfirm that. La cinquenta, I think. Great reception also there, great reception from the people there, fantastic party. Then we did a carnival party, as I said earlier, which was 2023 with Sammy from Analog Africa who played, Adrian is Hungry, another DJ -Colombian, lives in New York-, Miss Champús -she plays reggaeton- from Medellin. Clarita as well, Ramirez, very good DJ, picótera.  And after these intense 4 days of parties, needed some rest, and then she basically was… I wanted to bring her around June. So, I traveled again to Brazil for a few days to play and get some music. Then I came back to Colombia to prepare her to go to Greece. So, what happened is before… The nice thing that happened, at least the way we finished the… the way she finished her journey in Colombia, is that there was a beautiful art expo that was happening in the Universidad del Norte, in Barranquilla, on Maestro William. It was an art expo and La Saramuya was invited to be part of the few picós that were in the art expo of Maestro William, and it was an honor to be there, such a pleasure to be there. She stayed there for about 3 weeks and was there for anybody to come in and see, along with other pieces of art and other picós that were painted by Maestro William.  And then eventually, a few… Yeah, after 3 weeks of being in the expo, packed her up, put her in a container. She was supposed to leave in early July, eventually there was some issues and she stayed in Cartagena. From Barranquilla to Cartagena, she stayed in Cartagena for a month, then she got in a container, Cartagena to Spain, Valencia. Spent a few weeks, maybe a month in Valencia, and then eventually came to Piraeus and arrived in September. Took me about a month to get her out of the port and customs etc., brought her to my garage and then started fixing her up because I wanted to upgrade a few things and get the sound right again. So, did a few tweaks, I did a few cablings. I learned many many things in these months because I was alone. Back there I had my engineers and my electricians, so it was a great opportunity to do everything hands-on myself, learn a lot, and of course, a lot of FaceTime calls with the engineer and the electrician. But eventually, I got there.  And yeah, we had the the first party on the 24th of December, it was the first party of La Saramuya, which I called “Más Verbena”. 24th, Christmas Eve. Verbenas are usually the parties that happen… picó parties are usually called verbenas, so, when you say: “Oh, there's a verbena happening there”, you know that a picó is playing in that street, so you'll go to that party. And the parties of La Saramuya will be called “más verbena”, which means: more party, more verbena. So we had our first “más verbena” party on the 24th, it was a great success, it was beautiful, in the beautiful Theater Fournos in Exarchia, Mavromichali a great space, perfect size for La Saramuya's first launch. It was extremely fun, it went well, the reception was fantastic. I think everybody was fascinated and mesmerized by: “What is this?”. La Sramuya looked glorious, she looked majestic, she looked really really dominant and powerful, and really, I could have not, you know, expected any better launch or any better party here. It went fantastic, I was very happy. And that was great.  And going back to the number of picós. So, you did mention, yeah, La Saramuya is the first picó in Europe to have been built in Barranquilla and to be actually performing. There could be 1 or 2 smaller picós that are in the houses of some crazy Colombians here, and they have them there. But on record, she is the first 100% Barranquilla-made picó that's made its way outside of Colombia. And she's in Europe, she's in Athens, I'm so proud that she's in Athens, I'm so happy that she's in Athens to make waves and make parties and make verbenas the way they are and the way I've seen them in Colombia. There's another two picós in Europe, good friends, very nice. El Maradona, which is built in Italy, built and painted in Italy. Very nice guys, who are Nadeem and Matteo, who are really respecting the culture as well and they have done a great thing. The other one is in Holland, in the Netherlands, by my friend Maron, it's called El Magico Baobab. That one also built in Europe, in Holland, but painted by Maestro William.  These both came to Europe in 2022 as well, same year as La Saramuya was born and La Saramuya now has joined these two picós in Europe. And there's another one that was -that is and was also- a very nice inspiration and kind of showed me that this can be done in some ways. It’s El Gran Mono, from Josh and Tom, great guys. They built El Gran Mono picó, they built her in Australia, in Melbourne, they're based in Melbourne. They built her in 2018.  They built her in 2018. She was built in Melbourne but her painting is also from Maestro William. And they have been progressively also growing this picó awareness and picó community in Australia. And they have been huge help in helping me also build my picó and basically showing me that, you know, something like this can be done outside Colombia. And they were really an inspiration and great help into evolving, developing and creating this project.

I was wondering why you chose Athens to bring La Saramuya. Why not London or Ethiopia, that you lived there before?

Yeah, good idea, good question. It was… I mean, Ethiopia, I kind of always sort of wanted to move back but then eventually… yeah, eventually no. London, I lived there for too long and I was just tired of the weather and I thought to myself, in a way, that it could also be… It would be a bit easy to bring something like this in London, in terms of the parties you're going to do and everything, because of how cosmopolitan it was etc. I mean, not saying it's easy, but easier than Athens. And then Athens, I just wanted to gift Athens -and myself- having the first baranquilla picó in Europe. I wanted her to be in Athens, it was somewhere where I always kind of wanted to move to and live in. And yeah, Athens… Yeah, Athens deserves to have something like this.  And actually, the other reason is that I was never really -not that I lived in Athens long-, but I was never really a fan of the nightlife in Athens. So… But the nightlife in London, I loved because of how we discussed earlier. But in Athens I was not a fan. And okay, I'm saying, I don't and didn't know much about Athens, but from the nightlife that I knew of Athens, I did not like. So it was something like, you know what? If I bring La Saramuya to Athens as well, I can create my own nightlifes. I can create my own nightlife, I can create my own parties and create what I want to create for the people to see what I've seen. And bring the DJs and bring the verbena and the parties of what I lived, so that Athens and people in Athens get the opportunity to live that as well.

To make a contribution, basically. So, now you've launched your Saramuya here, in Athens. You've seen sort of how the people are starting to receive this new idea. And I was wondering, what is the most rewarding aspect of this for you? You know, like seeing her come to life, basically- 

Yeah-

Having worked on this project for so long, like having put so much of your energy and seeing it out there, people enjoying it.

Yeah, yeah. It feels -yeah- it feels amazing. And honestly, there was, yeah, a lot of work. It wasn't… I mean, like I said, it was fun times and good times and all that, but it was long, it was hard. I was basically also living from my savings and using all my savings to create this project. So, it was tough. And another friend of mine, also that I met through Don Alirio and she helped me manage La Saramuya at a few parties, is Nana. Nana has been great with all this. I’m coming back to this because Nana made a post a few weeks ago, when I launched here and I posted a video, and she wrote: “Not many people know how much hard work my friend, Stivako, has put into this project”. And it's true, like… I also tend to forget it because we talk about it, okay, she's ready, she's here, she's playing. But the journey was long, it was fantastic, but it was tough, it was tiring. But yeah, it was… You know, few people knew all the things that I did go through to reach this point. So, it's just beautiful to have her here. I want to have one in Barranquilla, eventually I will! When I can afford.

“Mark my words”.

Yes, I will have La Saramuya in Barranquilla where she really really belongs. [01:40:00]The idea is to, you know, spread and do more parties, different parties, eventually maybe festivals in Greece and Europe. But yeah, the rewarding part is that people are… Hopefully, from what at least we've seen from the first party and then we did a second one, which I was contracted at “Pharaoh”, for the birthday of “Pharaoh” restaurant, one year birthday, few days later… So, the reception was great, people being fascinated by her colors, but it's mainly the music that will come out of her. You know, I want the people to more appreciate the different music and -as I've called it- like a musical odyssey, odyssea musical, that's going to come from her and from the DJs and the DJ sets that I would love to bring, to play music on La Saramuya, that's something I can't wait for. And it's not just me. I play music, I know a little bit, but there's so many more people that are brilliant and have incredible collections and incredible music and incredible things to show, and for me, it's more… I’m looking forward and It would be an honor to have these people play on La Saramuya and these people spread and make you all -listeners and dancers- experience and appreciate and just dance the night away, you know? Just dance, dance, dance and feel. It's very important.

Stef, I personally don't have any other questions, but if there's anything else that you would want to add or... Like a closing you would like to… like an endnote? 

Closing note… Basically yeah, I mean, one thing is that I didn't expect so fast and from one party and from one article at “LIFO”, through my friend Adamantios here, that I was lucky to meet, and Maria Pappa, who wrote the article in LIFO and eventually that helped… I know that we, Joanna, would have eventually crossed paths and you would have come to one of the parties, but at least this happened basically through an article, that I was first of all not even expecting that there would be any article about me or La Saramuya at all. I just came to do what I had to do, and I would have done it through, you know, whatever, social media and just throw parties. So, that obviously helped a lot, so I'm very grateful for that coming out, and I’m very grateful that that eventually brought me to people like you, who acknowledge and appreciate what I've brought and what I'm trying to do. And you’re curious to know about it, you're curious to ask me about it, and that is, you know, the audience that, you know, I need to… I want to have on board, it’s this curious audience. So, thank you for the people who came and saw her, thank you for the people who appreciate, and thank you for the people that will come and see her.

And thank you, Stef, for bringing this to us and like showing us something different. And yeah, I think it's nice to see it flourishing because you get to see that when people have like novel ideas to bring, like it’s gonna somehow be appreciated. And thank you for sharing your story with us, as well.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you all so much!

It was super interesting. 

Thank you!

And see you around!

Yeah. Thank you, will do.